Hi - Tom Here, this is another one of these quick response essay/reply things. My responses are as usual in the Comic font and Jeff's are in the other one . . . Well, U know! TOM!

Taken from chapter 16 of Jeff Godwins book What's Wrong with Christian Rock?

Every excuse in the book, no matter how ridiculous, has been given to show why C-Rock MUST be used to minister to youth and young adults. Let's look at ten of the most popular excuses and match them against the Bible. You be the judge. If the excuse matches the Word, then accept it. If not...

OK Jeff, I'm on for that challenge! Popular excuses matched against the Word sounds good.

Really, though, the 'checking it by the Word' process should be the process every C-rock fan goes through when evaluating what to (and what not to) listen to.

1.) They're going to listen to Rock music anyway! At least this is a better alternative.

The first part of that statement is a bold-faced lie. Not every new convert is as hard-hearted and rebellious as the CCM stars.

As we will see, the 'hard hearted and rebellious' theme comes through loud and clear in this chapter and it's not very hard to get the gist of what Jeff is saying. The only problem here is that Jeff assumes that we agree that CCM-ers are hard-hearted and rebellious. I, for one largely disagree with this contention, therefore he will need to put up some proof. If this is non-existent, then so is his credibility!

Many young people are giving their hearts and lives completely to the Lord at salvation and have turned away from vile Rock filth. I've got a file drawer full of their precious letters. They recognize the difference between the holy and the profane, and are choosing holiness.

Yet another in a long line of perversions of Ezekiel 22:26. No, no, no Jeff - Ezekiel was not prophesying about the 'evils' of rock music - he was condemning the sins of Jerusalem (mainly sexual), corrupt prophets and bad priests. I'm getting tired of people contending that organs are 'holy' and rock is 'profane' - when asked for proof they point to Ezekiel!

But what about the "better alternative?" Are you kidding? C-Rock looks the same, sounds the same and produces the same rotten fruit as its secular cousin: rebellion. It teaches kids how to love the New Age and hate authority. Some alternative.

Where did this information come from? Does Jeff give proof to back these claims up? No! And why? Because he CAN'T!

2.) We have to use C-Rock because this is the music kids relate to today.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 tells Christians to SEPARATE from every ungodly work, not invite it home for dinner!

Again this assumes that CCM is an ungodly work! Again, Jeff seemingly is unable to break out of the circularity of his own system! Anyway, Jeff, that's not what the verses say! The verses you referenced, if read in their proper context, actually refer to CLOSE, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS with the world! I have a problem with this whole "it looks like the world so don't go near it" attitude! Jeff, don't you know that you can dress in your suit in your office with a full bookcase behind you, and look exactly like a barrister who gets paid to defend pornography?! Does this mean that we can't wear suits and ties, and that the cases full of books have to go?

Here's the heart of the problem - the "relating" hoax is really about friendship WITH sin, not coming out from among them and being separate. Instead of "touch NOT the unclean thing", C- Rock says: "Touch it all you want to! We'll use it as a bridge to get to something better! Who cares if God forbids it? What does He know, anyway?"

Another point to consider: If you as a pastor, parent, youth leader, or church have to use gimmicks like "Christian" Rock to "relate" to youth, where does this leave the ministry of the Holy Ghost? Matthew 7:6 says not to throw pearls before swine. Yet we've got it backwards!

The Holy Spirit is moving through the medium of Christian contemporary music! God gets glory from the multitudes of souls who are being won to Him from the kingdom of darkness! Anyway, are you limiting God by saying He can't use this? It seems that you have God in your little box. In this sense you have quite literally made God in your own image!

We'll dump Rock filth in the laps of God's people and call it a blessing!

A Christian" Thrash singer once told me I'd probably get my teeth knocked out if I went into the ghetto to witness. He said I'd have no chance of getting anyone to listen to the Gospel looking like that. (I was dressed in a shirt and tie.)

I have a lot to say on this issue but I will keep it very brief. The main error here is that the mode of dress is inappropriate for the venue. I remember in my city about a year ago, we were having a real scorching summer's day. In the city centre there was an ultra-conservative group out witnessing. Of course they sported suits and ties. One of the guys complained about the heat, when I suggested a tee shirt he seized upon the opportunity to tell me that it would be 'disrespectful to the gospel'! Proverbs 30:6 says 'ADD THOU NOT'! If we are to make plush clothing a pre-requisite for communicating the gospel we are adding to the word. The attitudes of some critics in this respect are really lousy! In 'the invasion begins', John Beardsley relates how he went to a newsboys concert dressed in a shirt and tie! Then he criticised the kids for looking at him funny!! How sad - if it weren't so sad, I'd laugh.

This man didn't know that two nights before, I was dressed the same way and shared the Gospel face-to-face with three lost Rock addicts.

Very vague, was it actually in the ghetto you witnessed to these guys? Also, judging from what you're about to say (in the paragraph after the next), I have to ask if it were the real Gospel of Christ crucified, or the gospel according to Jeff!!

 They understood the Gospel fine. Their hair, leather and studs didn't bother me, and my shirt and tie didn't bother them. It's the GOSPEL that does the relating, not Rock music or any other ungodly trick. The Holy Spirit's blessing is on God's Word, (John 17:17) not on pagan noise.

Do you know what those three headbangers told me during our meeting? They said, "Yeah, but it's O.K. for you CHRISTIANS to listen to Christian Rock, isn't it?"

Why were you discussing this issue with them? What gospel did you preach? I'm interested to know how the issue of Christian rock emerged in an episode of witnessing! . . .

Something's dead wrong in the way we're "relating" to the lost, Brother and Sister. The WORLD is mocking and laughing at us! They see through such hypocrisy in a minute; why can't WE? It's because churches have made friends with their chains (2 Peter 2:19). They've been too busy listening to "the experts"

Like you, perhaps? Oops no, of course, you only PRETEND to be an expert when it suits you. I have caught you other times pretending to be an expert at seeing into people's hearts, I've seen you parade your supposed 'expertise' of the rock genre etc. Also, something most certainly is DEAD wrong with the way you relate to the lost Jeff- supposing that you are witnessing about rock music and not the resurrected Christ!

 instead of the Holy Spirit (John 16:13 & 1 John 2:27).

DON'T LIMIT GOD! It seems from your book that you assume the only 'good' types of music are traditional hymns. To insist that all 'good' music was written in Europe 200 years ago is cultural elitism and just plain weird! God CAN MOVE THROUGH THIS MUSIC, IT'S JUST THAT IN YOUR CASE - YOU DON'T ALLOW HIM TO! In fact, to call one form of music 'sacred' is IDOLATRY!

3.) God created music, and everything God created is good, so Rock music must be good and godly, too.

I say a partial Amen to this 'excuse'!

Christian author LaMar Boschman's answer to this popular excuse is better than anything I could say. His reply is based on the scriptures found in Ezekiel 28:13 and Isaiah 14:11, which prove Lucifer's musicianship:

"The day Lucifer fell, music fell. Music that once was used to worship Almighty God now became music of an earthly nature, it became the music of the world and began to appeal to our lower nature instead of appealing to God and our spiritual man (that part of us that has been born of God). Music then, became corrupted. That anointed and powerful ministry of music that Lucifer had in heaven is now corrupted. That ministry is cursed. It now has a false anointing... He still has that same powerful ministry to create worship but now it is corrupted, and Lucifer uses that ministry to get worship for himself because he craves it..." 1

This means that ALL music is inherently evil! Including Wesley, Fanny Crosby, Isaac Watts, and John Newton! The 'good' music you revere!

4.) Music is the universal language all young people understand, so we'll use Rock music to speak their language.

First of all, that's supposed to be impossible, because the doctrine of CCM says all music is neutral!

NO, Jeff, you misunderstand (again)! For the first time ever in history we have a style of music that can be heard in every country in the world. It's called contemporary pop/rock! You will hear the same songs in Nairobi as in Tokyo and Mexico! Go to London you'll hear it, go to Detroit you'll hear it . . . This is the point! Why can't critics understand that the music style is separate from the words? It gets very messy when Jeff and others take this misunderstanding to a really bad extreme. Some have even said that DC Talk is evil because Toby Mac listens mainly to secular music to get his stylistic ideas. The critics really display their ignorance here. Don't they realise that Luther's most popular hymns were 'borrowed' from popular tunes of his day! In fact, his stylistic inspiration was taken from the German's praise to their heathen deities! Charles Wesley used tunes from the 'pubs' in England. John Calvin hired two secular songwriters to pen his thoughts in a poetic manner. In fact the Queen was so incensed by them she called them 'vulgar tunes' and referred to them as 'Geneva jigs'! What is most interesting is that Calvin opposed the use of musical instruments and would only sing Psalms in worship! Louis Bourgeois finally put the Psalms to music, then 20 years later he tried to revise these tunes and was locked up for it! When John Bunyan tried to introduce hymns into his church, it resulted in a massive church split! Benjamin Keach finally advocated singing hymns in the Baptist in 1673 and it took his congregation SEVENTEEN YEARS to accept this change! People came against Watts' hymns because they had poetry and because they weren't Psalms! As late as 1819, a lawsuit was brought against a clergyman who sought to introduce a hymnbook to his parish! CH Spurgeon hated the contemporary Christian songs of his day, those same songs that Jeff recommends in his book! When 'silent night' first came out, George Weber, the music director for the Mainz Cathedral, called it 'Vulgar mischief'!  Silent Night! Even Handel's messiah was condemned by his fellow church-folk as 'vulgar theatre'! Donald Paul Ellsworth states that 'during the first centuries, Church songs CONTINUALLY borrowed secular musical sources and practices'! As I emphatically state later on in this document, a lot of songs from the 'gospel song' movement, such as 'the sweet by and by' and 'washed in the blood' (as Jeff quotes later), arose from syncopated ragtime music. In other essays, critics say that rock sexually stimulates because of the syncopated rhythm (see Dr Noebel's work as an example)! A great wave of opposition came against William Booth and the Salvation Army! ALL of the tunes William Booth used were secular- yet we revere them as sacred!  Are we seeing how silly this is becoming? Can't we learn ANYTHING from history? What about the Organ? When an attempt was made to introduce it to the evangelical Church, it was militated against, in fact when one Baptist church finally did 'compromise' by having an organ; some of the congregation broke into the church, stole the organ and threw It into the nearby River! Church musicians in the Middle Ages believed the augmented fourth chord to be possessed by the devil! At another time thirds and sixths were considered sensual and consequently banned! What about the piano?  In the 19^th century church you would be branded a heretic for using such a SECULAR INSTRUMENT! What about the violin? 18^th century Moravians accepted many instruments but rejected the violin because it was associated with the dance. They drisively named it 'the Devil's fiddle'! Early Free Churches (break-offs from the state church in Europe) vehemently opposed the choir as POPISH! In the light of all this laughable madness, do we not see that Jeff Godwin; Dial the truth; Texe Marrs; John Beardsley; and a whole host of other critics are just following in the footsteps of those past? Some people try to be ON the way, but others prefer to be IN the way!

 But if it IS a language, then what is that music SAYING?

Case in point here, Jeff, someone could spew profanities at you and another person could preach the Gospel to you in the same English that you use. Brining this into musical terms, rock music can be used to glorify God or the devil! Let's not be so silly to think that your music dropped down from heaven one day, whilst mine was spewed up from the depths of Gehenna (Hell)!

 This ad from CCM magazine is a perfect example of guilt-trip propaganda:

"Ask any youth pastor or any parent of a teenager and they'll tell you the same thing: Most of today's praise and worship music simply does not reach today's teenagers. We all know that music is the language of teens, and let's face it: most of the praise and worship music available today is a foreign language to them. That's why youth leaders are having such a difficult time getting their kids involved in their worship services. Says one youth director, 'As hard as I try, my kids just sit back with their arms folded when we begin our praise times.' In order to communicate effectively, you must speak the right language..." 2

It will be very telling to see how Jeff reacts here, because the great CH Spurgeon was incensed by the music of his day - music we now revere as holy, sacred and traditional. It is only in retrospect that we see this - what will we say about Jeff's attitude 30 or 40 years from now? See the history lesson I gave you a few paragraphs ago Jeff!!

Pastor and youth leader: if your young people are sitting on their hands during praise and worship time, the problem is in THEIR HEARTS

I'm glad to have someone life Jeff who seems to display a great talent for seeing into people's hearts! *Sarcastic*

not the church's music! If you feed your kids the Rock and Rap slop they demand, they'll learn a new language alright - Satan's.

Huh? Proof?

(Pointless discussion on why Jeff hates today's young Christians deleted!) I thought I would give some pretence of integrity on Jeff's part (for his sake!)!

5.) "No young person is going to stay in a stuffy" church. You've got to have some excitement! We've got to give the kids what they want or we'll lose them. Right?"

Wrong! If the only thing keeping the youth in your church is "Christian" Rock music, then let them go! If that's the glue holding the youth group together, you don't really have a youth group. To say that you must have Rock or the kids won't come is to dishonor and demean the drawing power of the Holy Ghost (John 6:44, 12:32).

That is a bit hypocritical don't you think, when clearly the only thing you care about is the style of music a person listens to! It strikes me as unbalanced when you use musical style preference as a spiritual barometer. Earlier on in the essay we discussed the fact that rock music comes up in your witnessing technique, and now musical style forms the legitimacy of kids' spirituality TO YOU! What an unbalanced and unsound doctrinal framework you must work from! It almost seems as if Jeff can tell whether someone is saved simply from the music that person listens to!

 This ad for CCM star Morgan Cryar's music is a perfect case in point:

"Fuel On The Fire - A good pop/rock sound for the teen-age audience. The songs deal with youth issues and situations without being preachy." 3

Without being "preachy." To hear the CCM industry tell it, preaching the uncompromising Word of God is a fate worse than death. Someone might get turned off, and ruin their whole day. What does the Bible say?

"For the PREACHING of the cross is to them that perish I foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a PREACHER?" Romans 10:14

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; PREACH the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2 Timothy 4:1,2 (Emphasis author's).

Yeah, that's right, PREACHING IS GREAT, but Morgan's album is not meant to be preachy! Are we to occupy all our waking moments listening to preaching? Of course not! There IS room for wholesome entertainment!

If your church is dead, dry or 'stuffy," then let some of the starch out! The Church should never be an organization; it's an organism - a living, vibrant body of believers.

If we aren't allowed to get rid of unhelpful traditions, then how do you suggest we "let some of the starch out"?

If your church is full of snoring pew bums, don't think young people don't know it. They can spot a phoney a mile away. Give those kids something scriptural worth respecting, and they will. Keep feeding them gimmicks like 'Christian" Rock, and you'll soon have contempt and rebellion coming out your ears (Proverbs 18:3).

I'm still waiting for any one of these critics to prove this constant 'rebellion' charge! They just begin with this assumption, expect us to agree with it then argue in a circle! NOT VALID! Anyway, I thought Christian Rockers gave "those kids something scriptural worth respecting"! You haven't proved anything to the contrary! All Jeff can do is shout - "IT PRODUCES REBELLION" BUT DOESN'T TELL US WHERE, HOW, ETC ETC!

SUBMISSION VS. REBELLION

The real battle is not about a musical generation gap, it's about SUBMISSION vs. REBELLION.

See above

 Submission is the hallmark of the Christian life. Without it, all you have is counterfeit spirituality. To resist the devil, you must first be submitted to God (James 4:7).

Amen! We must RESIST the Devil not ASSIST him!

 Since C-Rock fans aren't truly submitted, they'll never be able to resist Satan, no matter how often they sing "To Hell With The Devil" (by Stryper).

Such an unbelievably silly leap of logic serves as its own refutation!

The classic hymns so despised by youth today

And by CH Spurgeon (and most other traditional pastors) in his day! It was only the radical wing of the Church that embraced these crazy new hymns! Get with the programme dude, check your church history, and you'll see that it's not just 'youth today' who despise those hymns! We have Calvin and Spurgeon on our side in this respect! HA HA!

 were all about SUBMISSION; that's why carnal Christians want no part of them.

Songs like: "Washed In The Blood,"

SYNCOPATION - SEXUAL -RAGTIME! (ACCORDING TO THE CRITICS)!

 "Haven of Rest," "Jesus Paid It All," "To God Be The Glory," "Lord, I'm Coming Home," "Victory In Jesus,"

sensual 2/4 rhythm (of course these comments are sardonic, but thy do use Jeff's traditional arguments against him)!

 "Have Thine Own Way, Lord," "When I Survey The Wondrous Cross," "Take My Life And Let It Be," "I Surrender All," "Jesus Is All The World To Me." These are all songs of SUBMISSION.

Here's a lyrical example from just one of them:

"Have thine own way, Lord/ Have thine own way/ Thou art the potter/ I am the clay/ Mold me and make me/ After thy will/ While I am waiting/ Yielded and still..."

Now read these C-Rock lyrics to see the difference between submission and rebellion:

ROCK THOSE BLUES AWAY - Bride

"I don't need nobody to ease my aching mind. Don't need nobody complaining all the time. I need to roll those blues, rock those blues away... Let me tell you honey, what I need. I need a smooth playing guitar in my hand. Listen to the rhythm of my band."

Lots of godly submission in that one, isn't there?

I could respond in kind by churning out tons of bad theology in hymns - what about the 3^rd verse of "And can it be" by Charles Wesley - Jesus supposedly "emptied Himself of all but love"! Not in my Bible He didn't! Jesus always retained His Godhood! What about "I am not ashamed/at the cross"? Are you 'happy all the day'? Bad theology!! Where is the criticism of these Jeff?

If none of this describes your church, then shout hallelujah to the Lord, and back your pastor 100%, because he's standing strong against deception!

The 1990's will see the most intense war for the souls of youth ever fought, and it's getting hotter by the day. The carnal, C-Rock supporting Church has already cut deals with the antichrist system (whether they know it or not). And they will cut many more in the weeks and months to come. Is YOUR church one of them?

I am getting VERY sick of this! So far I've been compared to HITLER, SATANISTS, I've been called DECEIVED, CONFUSED, ANGRY, and DELUDED, at one point Jeff actually calls me UGLY! Now Jeff is saying that because my personal musical preference does not match his I've cut deals with the antichrist system! It is sick to think that someone as up-front about the Gospel, living for Jesus, passion for Him, igniting that passion in the heart of others, as my friends and I, are in league with the antichrist system simply by virtue of the music we listen to! Sounds silly when you really think about it, doesn't it!?!

6.) No one can live under those kind of rules! That's too hard and legalistic!

This is the most popular excuse in all of CCM. Submission to God cramps people's style. Someone might actually have to give up their desires and change their lives to make them conform to God's will. How harsh of God to ask us to obey Him.

This same old discounted assumption that rock is disobeying God! Booooooooring (See above)!  

What if God asked YOU to give up your tradition? If God told you to give up your hymns, what would YOU say?

Fortunately, Jesus was willing to obey the Father and give up the glory of Heaven to come to a filthy earth and die for our sins. Because of Christ's obedience, we can have eternal life. Where would we be now if Jesus Christ

Let me guess the end of that sentence . . . if Jesus Christ hadn't loved us? If Jesus Christ didn't care about us? Good guesses, but unfortunately, here's how Jeff chose to complete the sentence . . .

 had used excuse # 6? (We'd be in hell.)

2 Timothy 4:3 predicted a time when Christians will not endure sound doctrine (That time is here right now).

Yeah, there are a lot of really 'out there' theories circulating - such as "Christian Rock is evil!" What a crazy unsound doctrine!

 Isaiah 30:8-14 says many of God's people only want to hear "smooth things." The CCM stars are fulfilling these scriptures!

HANG ON THERE! I thought rock was rugged, evil and carnal, unlike our lovely 'smooth' "by and by" style hymns!

 They're trading sound doctrine for slick, carnal compromise by telling masses of believers that:

A.     Music is neutral.

STYLISTICALLY!

B.     Jesus was a "cool dude" who would never want you to have a boring day, and

Who said this and when?

C.     It'll all work out in the end, as long as you "feel good" about what you're doing.

Who said this and when?

This is rank apostasy of the worst sort, but plenty of duped Christians are eating it up like candy. Why? Because it's just what they want to hear.

LIKE WHOM?

Legalism is defined like this: LAWS WITHOUT LOVE. Pursuing Biblical holiness isn't legalism; it's real freedom! Knowing the truth sets people free, according to John 8:31,32.

Read Romans, Biblical holiness is IMPUTED not laboriously gained! This is the exact essence of the legalism/grace dichotomy! I do holy things because God has made me holy! Holiness is not about being GOOD, it's about being GOD'S!

Here's the truth, if you'll receive it: C-Rock music and everything it represents is satanic because it blocks the path to self-denial, purity, holiness and total devotion to the Lord Jesus.

OK, then, teacher, here's a question for you - What biblical steps did you take to get you to this concept? What logical reasonings did you engage in? How does rock music do all of this? I'll give you something to start with: you assume straight off with no proof that C-rock is a sin . . . Your whole argument Jeff, is based upon a conclusion! If this is how your orientation was gained, your point is NOT VALID!

There's only one foundation, and that's Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:10-15).

hallelujah

What we build on it is up to us. When that foundation gets cracked, weedy and full of garbage, it's time to clear aside the spiritual stumbling blocks and haul off the trash (Jeremiah 1:4-10). That's not legalism. It's repentance in action.

I was going to leave this bit because I thought it was sound enough, but then I thought that legalism does not consist so much in the actions done (or not done) but moreso in the heart motives. To understand this let me give you an example. Prayer is great, it is vital for every believer, and we cannot be a Christian without it. BUT - EVEN PRAYER can be legalism! It's the heart!

7.) I can't serve a God out of fear. Jesus is about love, and this music shows kids that.

There's nothing wrong with a good holy fear of God.

Yet another 'logic leap'. Number 7 was not talking about a good holy fear of God. It was talking about serving God out of that slavish fear where doing God's will becomes a chore and a burden, rather than a joy. It is a joy to obey God for those who have a healthy fear of Him!

Read Hebrews 12:28. It tells us that the way to serve God with holy fear is to have grace. God gives us the grace, so it's not mustered up in ourselves. God DOES NOT want us to be scared of Him! Why do you think it says "fear NOT" so often in the Bible? We are supposed to COME BOLDLY to God's throne (Heb 4:16). We are supposed to have a special way with God as priests (1 Pet 2:9, Rev 1:6)!

We must differentiate between being 'afraid' and the 'fear of God', Jeff!

 Those who truly love God WILL fear Him. The awesome, knee-shaking fear of God is a theme conspicuously absent from C-Rock music. (See Daniel 10:7-10, Isaiah 6:1-5, Ezekiel 1:28, 3:23, Hebrews 12:18-21, & Revelation 1:12-17). The C-Rock crowd is a perfect picture of what happens to people when there is no fear of God before their eyes.

Psalm 40:3 says our conversion will put a NEW song in our mouth that will cause those who hear it to FEAR! (Does C-Rock do that? They're too busy dancing!)

OH brother! 2 Sam 6:14; Psalm 30:11; Psalm 149:3; Psalm 150:4!! Notice in the penultimate reference we are encouraged to dance, and in the last one it sounds more like a command?? Question: Can fear and joyful dancing not co-exist?

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, (Psalm 111:10). Only by fearing God can we know what true godly love is. The fear of God is as Biblical as John 3:16.

Amen! So it would be wise to understand it as well as you understand John 3:16!

8.) There's more important things in the church to worry about than music.

Satan would love for you to believe that lie.

Already, Jeff's odd value system shows through - if you like a different type of music than that which he listens to you CAN'T be saved! BIGOTRY!

 If "Christian" Rock is in your church, you've already got deception, rebellion and soul pollution in the minds of your young people. Anything more important than that?

CAN YOU PROVE THIS JEFF? I'M GETTING VERY TIRED WITH THESE BASELESS ACCUSATIONS!

If church leadership will diligently look, they'll see that MUSIC is a prime key to the spiritual health (or sickness) of any church. Preaching, teaching and the Great Commission are all major elements of the Body of Christ. And so is music.

Don't ever sell it short.

9.) Times have changed. It's time we changed too. The old ways don't work any more. We"ve got to update our approach and try something new. "Christian" Rock is the tool to better ministry.

Those "old ways" you are tossing onto the garbage heap just so happen to be God's ways. They've worked for thousands of years, and no matter what any C-Rock fan tells you, they still work today.

This is where Jeff's arguments get very odd! Is he actually claiming he sings the songs they sang thousands of years ago? What IS he talking about?

When holy servants of God pray and clearly preach the Gospel, the Holy Spirit still convicts hearts and draws lost sinners unto repentance. Souls are still being saved every day. Here's how God sees it:

Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. Jeremiah 6:16

How does this support the 'hymns' you listen to? Well, actually, this is one of these 'prooftexts'. Remember this reader - ' a text, apart from its context is merely a pretext for a prooftext '! The context of this chapter is not immediately clear, but it certainly seems to be one of those eschatological 'end-times' prophecies. Perhaps is alludes to the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, the fulfilment of which culminated in the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem in AD 70! Despite the uncertainty, however, it is certainly a stretch (to say the least) to apply this to rock music! But to encourage C-Rockers, if this is the best they can come up with, we have NOTHING to worry about! Jeff's prooftext proves nothing about rock music!!

Do you dare to claim you've got a better plan for soulwinning than outlined in the Bible? If you do, I'd like to hear it., because that means you're smarter than God.

Again another unusual slant on this, somewhat obscure, passage! Soulwinning? This passage is not about music or soulwinning!

10.) As long as kids are getting saved, nothing else matters. So butt out, buddy.

OK, so some CCM supporters aren't nice! But we're not all like that! Of course, sometimes you can be a bit trying on people's patience!

When you reach this point in any discussion about CCM and all its ungodliness, it's time to stop., shake off the dust and move on. Any believer so bound will never understand the difference between the flesh and the spirit until God Himself makes it real to them.

Oh, Jeff, don't you understand the difference between the flesh and the spirit? Does the spirit have to work within YOUR parameters that YOU have set up? If You have compartmentalised the Holy Spirit to the point where He isn't free to do a new thing, is it wrong for other people to be free in God?

They don't understand that fleshly lusts war against the soul (1 Peter 2:11). They won't accept the fact that flesh and spirit cannot peacefully co-exist (Galatians 5:16,17).

Why do you think we discourage the use of secular rock?

These are the people who go to dark "Christian" nightclubs and boogey all over the "Christian" dancefloor, while listening to "Christian" Rock. After all, the torture Jesus endured on the cross doesn't mean we can't have any fun. Right? #

Yeah, I know! Fun is so evil isn't it! OK lets get to work on ridding the church of fun and making everyone as austere as Jeff shall we? NO! Let's NOT!

God's heart breaks over such foolishness:

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Corinthians 11:3,4

This cannot be relevant because

Ø       C- Rock preaches the same Jesus as the Bible.

Ø       C-Rock operates under the anointing of the same Spirit

Ø       C-Rock preaches the same Gospel

But what about Jeff? Was he preaching the same Jesus and the same Gospel to those gangsters when he was witnessing about the evils of rock? Hmmm!

The Church of Jesus Christ has ignored the obvious for far too long. Excuses can be made from now until judgment Day, but none of them will change one simple fact: there's nothing Christian about "Christian" Rock. You can make a list of excuses a mile long, but that's all they are - excuses.

If there is no proof, there's NOTHING!

My prayer is that you will see that God wants you to crucify your old flesh (Galatians 2:20) so Christ can live His life through you. I pray Jesus will change your affections form the inside out. Then you can learn to walk with God in ways you never thought possible.

It's the only way out of bondage, and I pray you'll take it.

Ok Jeff, whatever.

FEEL FREE TO MAKE COPIES

If leadership in your church is pro-"Christian" Rock, feel free to photocopy this chapter as well as chapter 17 as a scriptural witness to them.

WITNESS? Is this a way to say that pastors who like C-rock aren't saved?